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- How far away from a release is this?

- Given that Apple does not allow other render engines. What makes this Firefox?



> What makes this Firefox?

I think that's an interesting question. Is a browser defined by its rendering engine or by its features and UI?

When Chrome used WebKit, it was clearly understood by everyone to be different from Safari, even though the rendering engine was the same (I know, the differences were big), but a Firefox browser that uses WebKit seems to not be considered Firefox.

Personally, while I understand the philosophical and political differences, I think the browser is defined by its features, not the rendering engine: the user wants their bookmarks to sync between the phone and the computer, they don't care whether the two programs use the same library to draw the page on the screen or not, just like they don't care which malloc() implementation they use.

To put it in fewer words: Chrome on iOS is still Chrome, not Safari, because it has Chrome's features.

(This would not have been true a decade ago, but rendering engines compatibility is much less of an issue now)


I feel like whenever I read discussions about this on HN it's all about the JS engine.

Chrome was on webkit but used V8. And unless something has changed all non-safari browsers and webviews use an inferior JS engine.

Edit: (Something has changed, WKWebView now has the Nitro JS Engine, cool beans)


Also, when Chrome was launched, it was the only browser with a multi-process approach to a multi-tab browser world.. Also their approach to threads were right from the beginning, and that converge into a awesome no-lock and no-glitch browsing experience.. After that, every other browser followed them.

So, to be fair, Chrome was much more than V8 (which was also a part of its voodoo)


Also, when Chrome was launched, it was the only browser with a multi-process approach to a multi-tab browser world..

Nope, IE8 was: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2008/03/11/ie8-and-loosel...


Chrome still crashes a few tabs for every process crash. And it feels random the ones that are threads of the same process.


Chrome's WebKit wasn't 100% compatible with Safari's WebKit. They released from different branches.


You put the rendering engine and features in opposite corners, which is false. Blink and Gecko have features that WebKit does not. Like WebRTC.


Finest HN nitpicking. Chrome on Android is missing some features from Chrome desktop (extensions, Flash, NaCl), is it not Chrome anymore?


No, because they chose to exclude those features.


Yup. Good job nitpicking and completely ignoring the point.


I think he refers to features like Bookmark sync, developer tools, and so on.


It's a huge issue on mobile. Multiple rendering engines requiring the world to write software to a spec is what prevents people from writing code dependent on a particular browser or, in this case, a rendering engine. You see it all the time in the mobile web: plenty of sites just plain don't work when using other rendering engines.


And the fact that web developers then actually can't develop just for one rendering engine and claim that "it's enough" is a very good thing for me. I refuse to use Chrome and I'm extremely hit by all the sites developed "for Chrome only" on the desktop. The web shouldn't be "what's on the developer's machine and not more."


It comes from a non-profit organisation and it's the only major browser that's completely open source.


> What makes this Firefox?

The icon and a bit of UI design. That plus the ability to sync bookmarks and passwords with Firefox Sync. Otherwise, it's Firefox in name only. It's just a skin over Safari, like all other iOS browsers as per Apple's rules.


Well according to tweets, not very far.

And with the release of WKWebView, I guess it makes it a skin.


Maybe this will be for the jailbroken platform (probably not though :/)


iOS SDK forbids one even to build any other browser legally (which is glaring example of of lock-in insanity). At least that's how the license looks like. Are there any alternatives way to build code for iOS?


> iOS SDK forbids one even to build any other browser legally

Really? Can you provide a link?

> Are there any alternatives way to build code for iOS?

http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Compiling_iOS_application...

No restrictions there.


I researched it a while ago, may be the SDK license changed since then. That's what I found then:

License: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/files/iphone-sdk...

Relevant parts (emphasis in italics):

-----------------------

3.3 Program Requirements for Applications

Any Application developed using this SDK must comply with these criteria and requirements, as they may be modified by Apple from time to time: ....

3.3.2 An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and builtin interpreter(s).

-----------------------

Combine the above with this:

-----------------------

3.2 Use of the SDK

As a condition to using the SDK, You agree that: (a) You will only use the SDK for the purposes and in the manner expressly permitted by this Agreement and in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations;

-----------------------

TL;DR (at least how I understood it and IANAL) you can't even legally build any browser which uses its own engine and can run JavaScript code from the network (which is virtually any browser) if you use iOS SDK from Apple.

Of course you can simply ignore this sick level of insanity and build whatever you want, but we are talking about that Apple attempted to legally ban you from building certain applications (it's not even about accepting them in the store, it's about building in compliance with the SDK license!).

Such kind of stuff makes me have zero respect for Apple in general.


I think that part was removed, here's the latest one

http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/xcode.pdf

I lightly skimmed the iOS SDK part and ctrl + F'ed for key words (executable, SDK, Javascript, code) and nothing like those paragraphs you referenced showed up


I see. They put that restriction in another agreement here:

https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/information/iOS_Pro...

And hooked it from the SDK agreement with this:

-----------

2.2 <...> You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer Program Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements. Information regarding the iOS Developer Program Agreement and the Program Requirements is available within the iOS Developer Program website at http://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/information/index.ht...

------------

And that brings almost all the same restrictions like before. It's marginally better since now actual building process is not declared illegal, but installation and running the result is. Which doesn't make any practical difference anyway.


I think you are splitting hairs. What would be the point of "legally" allowing you to build an app that could not be submitted to the App Store? The only way to distribute it would be to "illegally" jailbroken devices.


> What would be the point of "legally" allowing you to build an app that could not be submitted to the App Store?

Simple, you can use it personally, or for example submit it to Cydia or any other place without Apple's censorship. Just post it as a download after all. There is nothing illegal in distributing for jailbroken devices.

But that's really irrelevant. The license here doesn't even get to that part - it forbids you to build the browser, regardless of any of your further plans how to use or distribute it. It's completely sick.


App Store Guidelines:

  > 2.17 Apps that browse the web must use the iOS WebKit
  > framework and WebKit Javascript
https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/


This is not about the store guidelines but about the license of the SDK itself really.


I wouldn't count on it.




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