In retrospect, I'm pretty convinced he was going to try to get me to undress myself at his escalating suggestion w/out him ever touching me. He was extremely careful about not touching, "accidentally" brushing, etc, and keeping out of my personal space. I realize now that this was a survival mechanism for him, as if the spell were broken by some wrong move, he really could have gotten hurt badly in this sort of situation.
Some people seem to have an almost super-human level of charisma/ability to influence others (there is probably a D&D reference to be made here).
Certainly the trope is common in fiction. See: The Mentalist (both the protagonist and antagonist share this ability) and several Agatha Christie novels with similar storylines.
This guy sounds like a real-life Red John; able to subtly re-wire people's thinking so that they actually want to do what he suggests.
I have only ever experienced this in the formulaic pattern of dark-arts sales tactics. Israeli companies selling cosmetic products from the Dead Sea are notorious for making a superficial connection with their potential customers and then exploiting that connection for a sale. But those tactics aren't hard to see through and resist. Quite scary to think that someone who has mastered those techniques could actually alter my preferences simply with the power of suggestion.
> Some people seem to have an almost super-human level of charisma/ability to influence others
I think most people are completely unaware of how true this is. As students and tech geeks, we've all probably met someone whose talents seemed otherworldly -- mastery of Quantum math, able to punch out code like Notch, that sort of natural intellectual athleticism that seems like something they must have just been born with.
Well, in boardrooms and marketing departments, in politics, in places of power and sometimes just in random situations, there exist people for whom the ability to (at least seemingly) 'connect' with other people at a deep psychological level is similarly off the charts, in the vanishing 6-sigma rightward tail of the hump.
Of those few people, some percentage, say 1%, were additionally born without anything like a normal conscience. They are incapable of feeling guilt or the normal sort of empathy that makes one feel the suffering of another soul.
I believe that those are, for the most part, the people in charge of things.
There is an amount of fair criticism on the subject, but it has made sense (in my opinion), to equate these individuals as being very high in emotional intelligence / awareness of self, others, and the perceptions of themselves, by others.
This may be true, but in my experience most "emotionally intelligent" people are also -- sometimes to a fault -- prone to really feeling other people's pain as their own.
The interesting combination for me is those with such "emotional intelligence" in that they can read people and figure out their motivations and feelings, but they don't have a significant empathic response, and they appear to feel little or no guilt in utilizing these perceptions for personal gain, regardless of the pain they inevitably cause to those who trusted them.
I complety fell for one of those Israeli cosmetics things in the mall in my early 20's. My dad was in sales so I am accustomed to all the techniques of persuasion. But for some reason that day I bought $20 or so worth of skin care products I had no intention of using. When I got to my car, I was like, "what on EARTH just happened?!" I have never allowed myself to be so manipulated before or since. Creepy to think of those same techniques being applied to nefarious ends.
Tricking you into buying junk you don't need qualifies as a nefarious end in my book. But you're right; serial killers rarely have a cooling-off period or returns policy.
Deliberately exposing yourself to these salespeople is great training. As long as you don't buy anything.
I was twice targeted by timeshare resort companies. It's really high-pressure, but it's endless fun to see them escalating salespeople, from the junior interns to the really experienced mindbenders. From praising you for your success, to criticizing you for not living up to what was expected from you at your point in life.
OH yeah, happened to me too! The only reason I didn't buy was that I was completely, genuinely broke. Heh. She was so pretty and so thoughtful and persuasive and blah blah blah.
I worked with some of the best salespeople in telecommunications (retail) here in Australia, working for the second largest telco. They had this ability, and you can learn it with enough practice. By the time I left, I was #3 in the country for that telco.
It's scary to realise how powerful it can be. Once, one in of the guys had a girl who took two contract phones come back in utterly disbelief at what had happened about a half hour later: this was no ordinary buyers remorse.
The only way to avoid it is to not communicate with those people.
It helps with nearly everything you do in life. I find it amazing and scary.
So did you ever get to enjoy sex with a guy after that?
Seems with the popularity of sites like chatroulette and cam4 more and more guys are either secretly or openingly experimenting with their curious sides.
*Why is this getting downvoted are hacker newers homophobic? The author notes how much the encounter excited him and how he thought about how it excited him throughout the years. I don't see this being an unreasonable question to ask.
This gay story, as well as one (especially) of the comments on the actual article, and your comment; something's very wrong with all three. I was about to ask if I'm the only one who sees that, but if you were downvoted, I guess I'm not. I'm glad because seriously: WTH.
EDIT: Actually, the reason for the downvotes is probably the fact that it has nothing to do with hacking.
Please give some thought to whether you might be intolerant before blaming your reaction on others. The specific things that "turn your stomach" here are a) men enjoying the admiration of other men, b) some commenters saying (a) was beautifully written, and c) further discussion of sexuality in the HN comments. You can't articulate why those three things bother you, but I am going to guess it's because you're not comfortable with the homosexual themes in "this gay story."
It's unfortunate that there are essentially two very interesting but almost contradictory elements to this story. One is the incredible charisma and persuasive abilities of this sociopath from the point of view of someone subjected to them. The other is the shift in perspective the writer experienced at the time of the incident, not knowing that the person was a serial killer. He realized that it is possible to have strong feelings for someone of the same sex, to enjoy being admired by them, etc., even while not being interested in a homosexual relationship. It was probably a positive influence on his life. While it makes for an extremely compelling story, it's almost a shame the two are combined, because the original experience and its effect on the writer was in a way completely independent from the fact that the guy turned out to be a killer.
I'm not a gay supporter, but my "discomfort" is not the reason I'm this shocked. Certainly my morality influences how I view things. But I'd likewise be sickened by seduction of an innocent person of the same sex.
What disturbs me in this story is the described hypnotism. The snake almost manipulated the guy who is clear as day about having not one bit of interest in the same sex. To make him strip is brain washing. Had the marine been attracted to the same sex, I would be less disturbed.
Now consider the following. Perhaps it is not me who is intolerant, but perhaps you lack perspective. Bear with me, I bore with you: Imagine that the story was of a sadistic straight rapist. The almost-victim must be completely uninterested in sex; if you cannot imagine such a level of purity, imagine a lesbian. Now imagine that someone comments on the survival story of this kind that she wrote using words like "wonderful". Is that a normal reaction? And then someone asks the almost-victim if the experience has made the victim less willing to have sex with men. Now you're coming from the same place I'm coming from. (cue people calling you a bigot)
When you say gay story what do you mean? I'm straight but i don't think this is gay story, it involves homosexual momentum, like, let's say Naked Lunch, but is not pro or even against gays. Author really tried to make neutral view about everything and he tried to make human analysis of situation in which he was involved.
I said elsewhere that it reads like serial killer fan fiction. The fan that would write such a story would be gay. I hope I'm beginning to make some sense, if not, please ask more questions.
Well, the story is about an encounter with a serial killer, so of course there is too much of the killer in it. The comment you responded to is just trolling around, and getting downvoted for it. I still don't see what you mean, sorry.
The story is written as if it were fan fiction of the fan of the killer. Then there is a comment on it saying how "perfectly wonderful" and "absolutely magnificent" the story is. And then there's this guy, who isn't trolling(from a deleted comment I found out he didn't read the entire story), and inquires about the writer's same-sex relations after the encounter. As a bonus, there's also an article elsewhere "Why hasn't California executed Randy Kraft?", in which there's a comment which describes what the killer is doing, and urges people to write and send books to him. This all turns my stomach. It's morbid.
I know he didn't read the article. I guess technically what cam4er is doing would be called shitposting, but I tend to consolidate these related behaviors under the trolling category. Fact of the matter is, and I think we agree on that, his posts are low enough quality to get him banned.
I found the article itself very interesting, actually. Morbid of course, it's a serial killer story. I didn't get the impression that the killer was idolized though, it was more a description of how far almost-superhuman charisma can go and what it must feel like to be on the receiving end of it.
I read the "perfectly wonderful" comment and took it as a compliment on the author's writing ability. IMO he did a great job conveying an unusual social and emotional situation.
