If you are a non-attentive, dis-interested pet owner you probably don't care enough to buy this. If you are attentive and interested in your pet this device tells you nothing new.
Fitbit works because you can correlate the data to your personal well being. Unless this device magically discerns the dog's well being I don't see how it provides any actionable statistics.
Attentive and interested dog owner <--> I pay a dog walker to exercise my dog
You don't need a device, you need to walk your own dog and bond with him/her.
This is like having kids, hiring a full time nanny and then saying you're a great parent because you have a camera on her to make sure she's nice to them whilst she's raising your children.
To your first point, if you don't trust your dog walker then you may also want to think and worry, and therefore question your decision of buying this, about the possibility of him/her taking the whistle off from your dog and attaching it to something else to give an impression that your dog was actively walking.
1. Detecting an abrupt change in sleep patterns in humans is useful.
2. Dogs are not humans.
Ergo: Detecting an abrupt change in sleep patters in dogs is useful.
Anthropomorphizing dogs is terrible. It is certainly one of the biggest causes for behavior problems in dogs.
Maybe it is because I have only ever had dogs that were bred for protection but I do not want to think about what my dogs sleep patterns are/were. Does whistle monitor for sounds so that I can disregard the change in sleeping pattern due to a siren? Foot traffic on the sidewalk? Thunder?
It's not anthropomorphizing to realize that mammals have a lot of physiology in common. If a dog scientist tells me that sleeping patterns are completely irrelevant for dogs because of some peculiar evolutionary adaptation, I'll believe it. But failing that, a decent null hypothesis is that it's probably pretty similar to humans (notice that my post started with "I'd imagine", not "It is a fact").
Also, just because X might be optimal for a pet doesn't mean that you have to do it. There's always something more you can do for your pet, but perfection is never possible.
And also, your incredible examples of confounding variables are not insurmountable, since sleeping patterns are successfully measured in humans even in suboptimal scenarios. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!
Do you own a dog? If you do, have you watched your dog while it is asleep?
Just as humans, dogs go through sleep phases and even though humans have longer sleep phases; dogs have a REM phase. Once dogs get to the REM phase they're in a deep stage of sleep and the sound of an ambulance or foot traffic will not wake them up as easily as you think.
I've seen it hundreds of times throughout different breeds of dogs. I used to work part time for a vet when I was a teenager.
I have a GSD and a rottweiller. I am not saying that dogs don't have REM sleep. I'm saying that they sleep lighter than I do and they have for thousands of years. Cavemen let dogs eat eat their trash and in return the dogs acted as sentries.
Ok so I have to disagree. I'm a very attentive dog owner. Matter of fact I'd say I'm really good. And my memory is also pretty good. I'm going to lay out what's nice about this device.
1) You have a lifetime of data on your dog (and with further improvements to the device I'm sure you'll get heart rate as well as movement). This is awesome, and here's why. My dog blew her knee out. She got a lot less exercise and is finally recovering. But how can I SHOW myself that she's running better other than this vague feeling I get as her owner. I can't, but with this device I could.
2) I can compare Sophie to other dogs her age, and possibly with help see that she's not running as much. That could have potentially alerted me to her knee issue (which is something you can NEVER learn about too early).
3) I can watch what she's doing no matter where she goes or who's watching her. I get data on her. This also has implications about lost dogs and your dog getting out of the yard (but for most attentive owners that isn't a problem).
I think you are attempting to argue away the value of this data, and I for one completely disagree. Sure I want more data, possibly gps/heart rate monitor. But I'll support someone who is taking a step in the right direction.
You are creating capabilities for this device that don't exist. Currently the data provided does not help with any of your use cases. In fact, it could actually hurt.
I used to have a dog with hip problems. As her hip got worse she ran more, not less. Why? Because it took her longer. Sure, it was lower speed, and she galloped weird, but Whistle would still track that as an increase in running! As a converse, as she got better the time duration of her running fell, but her intensity and speed increased. Again, giving you the wrong idea via Whistle data.
As I said before, Whistle is the Moves app for Dogs. I suggest you download that app, see the data you get from it, and if you would like that for your dog then go for it. Just remember you're paying $100 for the same functionality provided by a free app.
I fully agree. This is just a toy you can spend money on so you can buy of your feeling of guilt of not spending enough time with your dog and observing how they are doing.
Or you can do next to nothing with them for a month and then feel really good by doing just a bit more every week for 4 weeks and seeing a nice line going up and get some badges or whatnot for it.
I think a case can be made that if you seriously think about buying one of these, you probably already know you should spend more time and attention on your dog.
> You are creating capabilities for this device that don't exist. Currently the data provided does not help with any of your use cases. In fact, it could actually hurt.
Hurt? That's not physically possible... It sure as hell isn't going to bite my dog.
> I used to have a dog with hip problems. As her hip got worse she ran more, not less. Why? Because it took her longer. Sure, it was lower speed, and she galloped weird, but Whistle would still track that as an increase in running! As a converse, as she got better the time duration of her running fell, but her intensity and speed increased. Again, giving you the wrong idea via Whistle data.
Where's your data to back this claim up? I kid, I kid, but seriously don't you think these are changes that this device would detect, and if properly programmed point out to the user as abnormal? Now there's nothing to stop their algorithm from sucking and they could say "great job on walking your hurt dog for 27 miles this weekend on a camping trip dude. Gold star! (I'm assuming this is what you mean by hurt, not to be bitten) But, you'd hope that as the device matures they'd discover these sorts of things and look for them.
> As I said before, Whistle is the Moves app for Dogs. I suggest you download that app, see the data you get from it, and if you would like that for your dog then go for it. Just remember you're paying $100 for the same functionality provided by a free app.
I'm sorry my dog lost his smart phone last week so I'd have to buy him a new one... oh oh oh, I hear I could spend 100 bucks and get this same information in a nice neat little package that clips onto their collar!
The point of all this is that this device IS superfluous, I don't need any of this data. It falls squarely into the WANT category. Just like the fitbit (don't need that to work out either). It's a want kinda like say... a galaxy s4 (or iPhone 5), second laptop, extra pairs of shoes, raspberry pi, a new game, a new... you get the picture. No one is going to put this in the "You literally have to get one of these or your dog will die" category.
But you can't argue that a collection of data from all 10+ years is something that you ALREADY have . I say that because I like data. I like seeing graphs of activity, and being able to digest information in a meaningful manner. And it's not like you are going to make something that collects said data for cheaper than 100 bucks and create instructions/send it to me...
What I will say is that this device is not a substitute for caring for and watching your dog. Sure it'll give you pretty data, but at the end of the day they need love and attention more than anything else (which I think we can both agree on).
I honestly can't tell if you are joking or not, because I love actually do love more data on everyday things, and this is hacker news so I'm inclined to lean toward serious on a statement like that...
I.E. I downloaded a sleep app and very much enjoy seeing how I've slept over the past few weeks. Also thanks to one of the other commentators I'm going to download move and check that data out.
Do you know of any place I can get at my data from Google to see what my internet footprint looks like?
I'm not quite as ready to jump into HN attack mode.I immediately wanted to buy and/or help this company somehow. I've literally stayed up worrying about my dog because of lack of intel. But you're right, the intel is not quite there (yet).
I have 2 chocolate labs, and immediately was thinking how amazing this is as one is getting older - however, I'd like to think I am an 'attentive' pet owner (if not over-attentive by my wife's standards).
Your point about what the device can/can't discern is important. That is where I hope to see this go. Unfortunately for pet owners, your dog often doesn't communicate with you very well regarding their health. Sure, weight is relatively easy to discern, as are superficial wounds. But infections, arthritis, skin/coat health - all could be studied to give an owner insight if it is time to visit the vet. Ala preventative medicine.
Too many times an unusual throw up, limp, sleepless night can cause a vet trip and be nothing, but even slight trends could tell you a lot about the dogs health.
There have been enough times that one of my pets has changed their behavior in a way I've only realized after a vet visit. Spending just a little more time on the couch, approaching something from only one side, peeing slightly more/less often than usual, etc., that would be nice to note as an opportunity to intervene preventatively.
It's clear when something is way off kilter, such as the dog peeing every five minutes or never getting off the couch, but by then you know the animal is acutely suffering.
My wife can tell me if her neck hurts. If she says it five times in a month, I can tell her that she may want to make an appointment with a doctor or see what has changed about her work/home environment.
It would be nice if I could get the same sort of signal for my dog. (And be able to tell my vet yes/no when they ask if anything has changed.)
* If you are attentive and interested in your pet this device tells you nothing new.
Attentive and interested does not equate to "has a spreadsheet tracking their pet's activity". This device, just like Fitbit, is a personal (extra-personal, in this case) data collector. To say that tells you "nothing new" applies just as well to Fitbit.
* Fitbit works because you can correlate the data to your personal well being. Unless this device magically discerns the dog's well being I don't see how it provides any actionable statistics.
I'm not really sure what it means to correlate Fitbit to your "personal well being". I'm assuming you mean things like weight, resting heart rate, etc. Anyone who has spent much time with dog owners can tell you that managing your pet's weight can be as much trouble as managing your own.
I don't use Fitbit, but I track fitness data in other ways using some ad hoc tools. There are differing perspectives on the benefits of personal data logging, but one of the more common is that it increases visibility in to your real patterns as opposed to your perceived patterns. In other words, the data doesn't lie. The data becomes a source of accountability, and even motivation. It's really hard not to look at the data and thing about obtaining a "high score".
Pets are reliant on humans for their fitness needs. In the wild, a dog gets all the fitness it needs, because it has to chase down every meal. This puts the responsibility of wellness on the human, and these data collection tools provide the same benefits as they do for humans.
I completely agree with you, but you assume that this device has capabilities that it doesn't. I wish I could edit my previous post, as I feel like it would be helpful to address at the top, but this will have to do.
Whistle Tracks:
Type of Activity
Duration of Activity
Whether or not the user holding the iPhone w/ Whistle app is near their dog wearing the Whistle (I'm assuming that's how it tracks who the dog is with)
Whistle Does Not Track:
Speed of activity
Distance of activity
Calories burned
Type of Sleep
etc. etc.
(getting this from the website)
So unless you're simply tracking "My dog ran for 2 hours at 3pm" in a spreadsheet, I don't see how this helps you. All those nice little statistics people track using a Fitbit or other tools are not provided here.
So to re-iterate (and not harping on you bradleyland, just for the benefit of the majority): If you are a attentive and interested dog owner you probably already know the activity and duration of your pet. Intensity of said activity would be quite useful, no doubt. But that is not provided by Whistle. Location of said activity would be useful. But that is not provided by Whistle. Distance traveled during said activity would be useful. But that is not provided by Whistle.
If there was, say, a Whistle with GPS, accelerometer, heart beat monitor, etc. (possibly something that measures skin excretions?) it would be fairly useful. This is not that device.
edit: Downvote brigade is out today! I would appreciate it if you would let me know how I am wrong instead of simply voting me down. At the very least it prevents me from looking like an idiot and allows me to retract/modify my statements
edit edit: On further reflection, this could create some false data. A dog chasing it's tail for 2 hours in a kennel could be recorded as meaningful exercise ("running for 2 hours" according to the Whistle), leading you to make decisions off bad data ("I have no idea why she is so hyperactive, she get's plenty of excercise!"). Maybe. Just a thought.
edit edit edit: A nice analogy... Whistle is the Moves app for Dogs. Except it costs $100 more and requires extra hardware.
Shame you were downvoted for rational discourse. I always hate that :\
I get what you're saying, but I think we disagree on just how much utility even that limited data provides. The market will decide, but I think pet owners are just crazy enough to care about this simplistic data.
Are you unaware of the distinction between qualitative and quantitative knowledge? Or are you suggesting that "attentive" owners have nothing to learn from measurements?
I work out every day, but I still wear my Bodymedia armband. I already know that my caloric burn was high yesterday, and I still get value from knowing how high.
There's a serious possibility that people are more interested in putting fitbits on their dogs than they are on themselves.
Wealthy pet owners will spend an irrational amount of money on their dogs in almost the same way that wealthy parents will spend anything on their kids.
I don't own a dog, but every person I've spoken to who does has told me that this is awesome and $99 is pretty small relative to what they spend on their pet. (Granted, most of these people have a reasonable disposable income that they're willing to spend on their dog.)
So I'd really love it if the people commenting would disclose whether they own a pet or not. I suspect a lot of the skepticism is from people who don't own pets.
I imagine there will be more people who will buy this because they want to be more connected to their dog (as silly as that sounds) than interested in their health in a fit-bity way. I can see my whole family having this app for our dog.
nope. Kennel owners who have concerns about the activity of some of their dogs could find this a very useful tool.
I actually happen to have a candidate. An older Deerhound with a nervous disposition (odd for deerhounds) and some weight problems, maybe she's inactive? If we could monitor here base line activity level, then see what happens if we put her on diet food. That could be useful information. We need a diet food that doesn't malnourished her.
It's not being inattentive when you have 6 dogs and a life and you're not the sole source of activity for your dogs.
Amen. If you're taking care of your dogs already, you don't need this, unless you want another status symbol to go with your hypo-allergenic mini-poodle. (Or schnoodle.)
I love my hypo-allergenic lab/poodle mix. He doesn't shed, doesn't make me sneeze and can sleep in my bed. He's awesome, but I won't be buying this product.
The only thing I could see something like this doing is alerting the owner if the dog is barking all the time while they're out or something. You could always just set up a webcam for that though. Also, I wonder how much you have to charge it. Can it survive rain and mud?
Fitbit works because you can correlate the data to your personal well being. Unless this device magically discerns the dog's well being I don't see how it provides any actionable statistics.