Just to give you a glimpse of better things than saddening photos of police brutality, here is what people did at the Gezi Park in the past 2-3 days:
* An impromptu library was built, here are some photos: http://gezikutuphanesi.blogspot.com/ (scroll down) with books donated by people and many publishers.
Great high-quality photos! Two points I want to underline: (i) the protester-driven excavator in photo 23 is a story onto itself (for those who can read Turkish, the full story can be found here: http://eksisozluk.com/poma--556945?a=today) (ii) note that all the protesters in the mosque (Valide Sultan mosque, in Besiktas) have not forgotten taken off their shoes, as is the custom, even in that furor, thus disproving that the protests were anti-Islam.
A little bit hard to follow the google translation sadly.
I was running injured people back and forth into the mosque - what you said about the shoes was totally correct. In the end we had a system that people would meet us at the door to carry in the injured.
At one point an ambulance needed to go through - I ran in front clearing the way, up to where the digger was parked at the intersection.
Someone from the crowd jumped in to start it to make way for the ambulance, and spurred on by cheers, drove the thing forward, over the barricades, and directly into the water cannon trucks, sending the cops retreating.
After making a solid advance of about 500m or so, he was joined by 2 semi-trailers, before he was gassed out of the cabin. As he came down, I sprayed his eyes, and had a good 10 second pause, contemplating if it was worth driving the digger more. Eventually I decided that it wasn't my place (as a foreigner) to drive it, someone else jumped in and took off, and I hopped in the semi-trailer to help the driver who had been gassed.
My pleasure. Did my best to help out the cause, and tried to remain objective in the photos I took and the text as well. I'd appreciate it if you wanted to share the link - I tried posting on the front page of HN but don't think I have enough karma (it just .. disappeared..)
I've got to say, compared to some photos I've seen on my Facebook feed, these are nothing, many people lost an eye or had concussions when the police aimed the gas canisters directly to their heads at close range (I really don't want to share these, they're gruesome).
The now-famous "woman in red being tear gassed" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/03...) photo, taken by a Turkish Reuters photo journalist (who later was wounded himself by a gas canister) has been used as a symbol of the brutality of the police. But wait, maybe this was manipulation on the photographer's part (know to happen) and the policeman did it by accident? Yesterday, the followup shots to that photo were released: http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/galeridetay.aspx?cid=69735.... Note how the guy is very deliberate in his spraying, angry that this woman had the guts to stand against them.
Lest you think this was just a twisted policeman, let me assure you that the violence is very common. The police has always been violent against protesters in Turkey, irregardless of who's ruling, so this is not a first with AKP. What was interesting, however, was the persistence of people against the onslaught.
> But wait, maybe this was manipulation on the photographer's part (know to happen) and the policeman did it by accident?
As always you can not now if this exact photo, in its context, had a reasonable explanation. The thing is that the OP shows tens of photos of people highly injured and it cannot be "just coincidence" or bad faith from the photographer.
This photos remembered me the demonstrations here in Spain. Police brutality looks exactly the same. What a shame.
This is converging with alarming speed on an all out confrontation. Turkey is a very beautiful country balancing on the Europe-Asia divide with a lot of internal pressure built up over a long time. If the government keeps pushing like this it will likely reap a lot more than they've bargained for.
The Turks that I've known in my life are tremendously proud and very hard working people, push enough of them around for long enough and all that energy will be directed back at the one doing the pushing.
I really hope that the Turkish government will read the writing on the wall and will change course, if they don't do that then I fear that a lot more lives will be lost.
Thanks for the compliments about Turkish people, jacquesm.
I can say that things have improved in the last couple of days; violence of police has been more or less throttled, the local media has started covering the news, and members of the gov't, the deputy PM, the President and even pro-goverment journalists have started realizing the significance of this issue. I would say the main opposition is actually against the PM Erdogan himself now, who has yet to show respect for us. We will see whether he will change his mind in a few days and apologize (not very likely), when he returns from his trip to Algeria.
I found it absolutely incredible that Erdogan would leave for a trip to Algeria (of all places) rather than to address these obviously very urgent domestic issues. Whatever he's doing in Algeria I can't imagine that it is more important than to solve the domestic crisis first.
It is insulting, that's the point. Erdogan is no stranger to provoking people, and then demonizing them in the ensuing outrage.
Like when he called the protestors 3-5 bandits, or when he called the founders of the constitution two drunkards (and they did drink, but so what?), or when he said "if you have 100 thousand people on the streets, I'll bring out a million" (all easily googleable, don't have time to link now).
His bully-like attitude is partly why he's losing sympathy even among his own supporters and party, which contain a spectrum from conservative-moderates to ultra-conservatives.
Very nice, StavrosK. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Turkey, I've been impressed at the generosity and goodwill from the Greek people toward the Turks in times of great need recently, like during the last two earthquakes. And vice versa, from the Turks to the Greeks. It's actions like this, and messages like StavrosK, that give me hope about the future of these two neighbors.
Yeah, as far as that old rivalry goes, I think our grandparents were around the last ones to really feel it (what with the wars going on). Like you said, during recent earthquakes, the two countries were among the first to send each other aid.
On a personal level, I think that someone's place of birth is a poor predictor of how much I'll like them.
Can you provide some photographic proof that you are who you say you are,
edit: (sorry, the ability to remain anonymous is very important as lives are on the line). You might want to use a throw-away in that case as well because usernames can be tracked.
This is a really ridiculous request, several dozen people have already been arrested for tweets encouraging folks to protest. Asking this person to identify themselves this way puts them at significant risk.
Maybe you know Turkey as a modern, democratic country but we are not. I'm currently using Tor because of fear. You can face court in Turkey because of just re-tweeting something.
edit: sorry for my english. edited for some grammer mistakes.
Because current government tries to change how we live.
I think government's job is just trying to boost the economy, trying to not get into any war, paying the debts to IMF and etc.
But current ruling party forces our life styles into a shape which they draw.
Just one example:
- Taksim Square is a famous tourist attraction centers of Istanbul.
- Government first said to bars (pubs): "you can't put stalls on front of your bar." People protested just on facebook and twitter.
- They said: "you can't sell alcohol after 10pm but you can sell other things". Nothing happened. Just some protests but our PM labeled protesters as "alcoholics".
- After that they said: "Nope! No alcohol after 10 PM even for stores. You can't go to pubs, you can't buy from stores." People protested but PM said "So, you wanna raise your children as alcoholics?! We can't let this happen!"
You smell where these is going? Current ruling party tries to divide Turkey in two sides. "Religious good citizens" vs "atheists, lgbts, alcoholics, left-wings" etc.
Someone had to tell them "just because you are ruling party, you can't make everything you want". and we are trying to tell them this.
Well, since you're answering questions... Would you say in general that the government is becoming less 'secular'? Have there been other large changes pushed by the government besides the big issues I have heard about (including the alcohol issue)? Also, have there been laws put in place against atheism or LGBT rights issues?
One of the big issues right now is that these protests are not really getting coverage in the media here in the US. It's hard to get the full story.
"less secular" is not the only problem "less humble" is another.
examples:
- a blind man approached minister of health and says "we can't live with minimum-wage. Please improve current situations." And this is what the minister says: "You are blind and we gave you job. How dare you want more?" Source news article: http://gundem.milliyet.com.tr/bakan-akdag-gozlerin-gormuyor-...
- they don't have shame. we are using one of the most expensive oil in the world and after the last raise government said: "we didn't raise the price of oil, we just raised the tax". I can't find anything to say about that.
Is there an article you have seen in the western media that elaborates on what you've said here. I'm not finding my usual sources to be at all helpful explaining what is happening
> Can you provide some photographic proof that you are who you say you are, like maybe a picture of the riots (in bitbucket) linked in your profile here, with an embedded message to this post that isn't Photoshopped?
wtf? Are you the identity police around here? Would you like the man to get a police visit?
This comment and the one you posted below really make no sense at all.
Um.... any one remember the riots in the UK a couple of years ago? The police shot dead a black suspect, kept the family out of the loop and riots kicked off all over the place. (Yes, there was a lot more to it than that)
Well.... public opinion at the time wanted the UK police to act like these Turkish police. In fact, a lot of people wanted the police to be shooting these youths with plastic bullets, not to mention calling out the army to clear it up.
I wonder if the people who held those opinions are now condemning the Turks? I wonder if this is the sort of thing they had in mind?
The public doesn't know about good security work, unfortunately sometimes the police doesn't either. In most security work your objective isn't too win, it's not to loose.
This video[0] is a perfect example. It's was taken during some parade in Northern Ireland. The rioters are trying to break through police lines and, well, generally riot. Observe how the police at the top of the screen at 0:25 looses his temper and tries to go after the person in the blue hoodie. This would be an example of trying to win. He's hitting you, you want to hit him back. The problem is that you are quickly going to loose control over the situation. Worst case scenario individual officers find themselves surrounded, the line is broken, everything turns pear-shaped. This would be loosing. In this case the officer behind him quickly pulls him back in the line and talks him down. In the short term you haven't won, but more importantly you haven't lost.
Also look at the crowds reaction at 0:30 as they become even more aggressive. It's boring to fight someone who doesn't fight back. As a bonus, also look at 1:10 how the rioters form a "human chain" to not get grabbed by the police. Each person is holding the one in front of him to be able to pull him back.
There was a very clear break between the short lived, peaceful (if hostile) and completely legitimate march following the shooting - and then the full-on rioting that followed.
That said, looking at kweks' photos, it seems there could be a similar thing going on in Istanbul: In the daytime, the protest looks great, peaceful and calm, but at night, they are charging the police in a stolen excavator? The police is definitely wrong to fire CS canisters at head level, but if you're charging against the police in a stole excavator, you've lost the high ground.
I don't know how much the excavator was used for overall but there are quite a few times when it ran down water trucks that were actively spraying people. If the protesters were violent towards those in the water truck or were attacking police who weren't violent themselves then they lose the high ground, but destroying property that is used to inflict brutal harm to the people they're meant to protect is justifiable as long as it is done in a way that does not harm life.
Those picture sum up nicely to the official response from the official that only 14 people have been injured.
Violence in my neighbouring country has always been high.
It is just today the social media allow that to be displayed. Before, the broadcasting was always cutting it off due to goverment censorship.
This is just glimpse of the gruesome image of Turkey politians that are ruled by the army. There are far worse example in Turkey that have not seen the cover or day.
This is the same in there foreign policy with all the smaller states around them feeling that(armenia, cyprus, syria)
Unfortunately i do not see this changing until the people in Turkey stand up and overthrow the current goverment but that is impossible with out foreign aid as Turkey is a country ruled by the militia.
I'm just gonna jump out there and offer a prediction: Erdogan ain't gonna be hold power till 2014.
Most of those victims pictured didn't look like young anarchists/WTO protesters to me... they looked like average citizens. Even if you've got a large contingency of black bloc (I don't know if this is the case and it simply hasn't been pictured), no EU-applicant country can/should be able to get away with such behavior.
I'm still blown away by the quantity and quality of 'citizen journalism' covering these topics. Photos, video, blogs, tweets. We've gotten used to it being a big part but I think the effects are just starting to be felt.
Two years later (and a more developed country) since the Libyan revolution, and the quality of photos is already so much higher.
Give it five more years and we'll have gigapixel photos, live streaming POV cameras (eg glass) and who knows what else. I really think police misbehavior will be improved by it.
Wow, we are not seeing this on TV. This cannot be happening in Turkey! This is outrageous and I hope that it encourages more sharing on the internet to educate the world and that people go out in peaceful protests to show the government that they need to be LISTENED to. These people do not look at all as "radical protesters" as the Turkish Gov has made them sound like.
My question is, how long before the peaceful demonstrators turn hostile? If I were there, I would feel like the government has crossed the line into violence and that therefore the crowds have no choice but to defend themselves.
Soon enough, Turkey won't look that different from Syria, if the police keep that up.
Saying that "Turkey won't look that different from Syria" is not really a sensible statement. My understanding is that other than the Kurds in the south Turkey does not really have "factions" in it population beyond the normal urban/rural divide. It is not primed for any kind of civil war.
While one could argue that another Arab Spring nation could provide a parallel situation I do not think that any are very similar. Turkey has a history of repression by authority but it has relatively free and fair elections and it is not governed by anything resembling a brutal dictator. What it does have as I understand it is a government that has its base in the rural population and thus does not reflect the interests of the urban population very well.
The situation has more or less calmed down, police has started to behave more carefully. The PM has gone abroad, and the deputy PM yesterday made a somewhat warmer speech, recognizing some part of their mistakes. The president has also given a speech saying the message was taken. The media has started covering the issues finally. I would say there is an air of happiness among us, protestors now. We feel strong and united.
What the protestors now want in the short term, is an apology from the PM himself, but that's probably not very likely. We'll see when he returns from Algeria. (Isn't it stunning by the way that he went abroad while the protests were at their peak, in effect ignoring the protestors?)
Turkey will simply deny that this ever happened but will go on to say that the a large number of the police was also injured and that the number of injured civilian protesters is vastly inflated.
Yeah, really. A lot of times in these kinds of "police brutality" pictures it's a little hard to tell what's going on -- maybe somebody was being aggressive and stuff was warranted. Here, that's obviously not the case:
* wiping tear gas out of a <10 year old girl's eyes
* groups of cops kicking a single person who is already on the ground
* frail old man with broken nose bleeding
None of these people were in any position to be a danger to the cops -- why beat them up? Makes me proud to be a human that Turkish citizens are standing up for themselves. All the best for them.
I would call that my point. The media isn't reporting the news not because the government was hiding the facts, but because the government controls the media.
Who in their right mind has little kids near a protest? Saw what appeared to be a man wiping a little girl's eyes.
I don't condone violence on any level and I am all for protesting but I would leave the kids with someone I trust and somewhere safe (if that is at all possible).
If I get even an inkling unrest is occurring I would immediately get my daughter to safety (again, if that is at all possible).
Sometimes the protest comes near you. Tourists have been kettled in Montreal just walking out of a restaurant or in a park, held for hours without charges laid. It happened quite often last spring.
Also: you're rather quick to judge the parents, yet say nothing about the police that presumably fired at the child. Nice victim blaming.
The following is a description (slightly modified) from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam:
The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.
As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness.
At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs [Europe, Australia, USA and Japan]. Six percent of US prison inmates are Muslim. Like any other minority, they won’t integrate, but work to build their own separate community.
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. South Africa's Muslim population is 2%, but they control 35% of the businesses, a large percentage of the banks and have five Cabinet seats while Christians (77% of the population) have none.
They will push for the introduction of halaal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves (along with threats for failure to comply).
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia; Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world, but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. (Ei: car-burnings in France last October.) Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats.
After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning (India, Mindanao, Philippines).
At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare [Indonesia].
From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya (infidel tax). (Sudan, Kosovo, Lebanon and Egypt).
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide [Western Papua (New Guinea), Iran, Biafra, Turkey and North Nigeria].
100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" - House of Peace - as in Saudi Arabia, Libya and Yemen.
Islam is the main religion of the Turkish people, where the CIA World factbook states that 99.8%. It has not yet Implemented Sharia law there, you can be sure the unrest will continue there until Turkey is ruled by Sharia law.
Given the incredible over-representation of blacks in US prisons and the number of blacks that embraced Islam during the CRM this is a surprising statistic?
> Like any other minority, they won’t integrate, but work to build their own separate community.
Good, I am glad that we have worked out that this text is part of a larger demonstration of the evils of minorities in the United States. All those immigrants over all those generations, what a waste. I mean look at what has become of the Germans and Irish in America!
> South Africa's Muslim population is 2%, but they control 35% of the businesses, a large percentage of the banks..
Oh, it is good to know that the author if this knows nothing about South African history. This argument is exactly parallel to the idea that a cabal of Jews is running the western world, you realize that? I could make the same argument about the "evil" Chinese in the Muslim nations of south east Asia - how is it that these great and terrible Muslims allow another ethnic minority to concentrate economic power in nations where they are the majority but are somehow crafty enough to take over the economy of South Africa.
> When Muslims reach 10%.. Ei: car-burnings in France last October.
France is not actually at 10% but I am sure we can trust you that the motivations for rioting had nothing to do with economic conditions or being marginalized.
Way to misrepresent the process that is happening in Norway. The Scandinavian countries are having a large, sudden increase in economic inequality.
A school was closed in the area and a lot of families lost support. THAT is what is causing unrest amongst the predominately Muslim people in that area. The spark was the fact that police executed a man threatening his wife in a domestic dispute (police job is to calm and not escalate disputes, escalation is for military). If this consistent with Jihad I have same bridges to sell.
To be honest if you want a parallel this is closest to Britain's demonstration last year (IIRC) and similarly to do with growing economic inequality. Unless the Brittain blackies are on the Jihad train along with Zionist and aliens. And KKK.
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the sounds of Muslims threatening their government (Norway) with 9/11 events to get their own country-within-a-country.
You mentioned I wasn't responding to your argument, I was, you said Muslims always Integrate, and I responded with an example right now of Muslims threatening countries with 9/11 events to get an Islamic State within Norway. This game you are playing. Two can play it.
Why are you defending the terrorists? Instead of acknowledging the truth and letting it be, you do genetic fallacies and attacking the person instead of adressing the facts of the matter.
I did not say that all Muslims always integrate nor did I mean to imply it. You post original post makes broadly general statements about all the Muslims in the world, it says in fact that they "won't integrate". It seems to me that the burden of proof is on you with all these generalities.
Which terrorists was I defending? If I offer a defence of Catholics against accusations of violence does that make me an IRA supporter or defender?
I want to hear more about the cabal of Muslims running South Africa, it sounds fascinating!
I make broad sweeping generalizations about Muslim Extremists. Yes. By definition they are the ones that refuse to integrate and have on average 8 children per slave female and make it illegal to educate women.
Oh you're going for the "Islamic Takeovers of the world are OK because the Catholics did it too"? What the catholics did were wrong, and what the Extremist Muslims are doing is wrong too. Stop trying to apologize for the Extremist Muslims.
Blowing up children at Marathons to illustrate your hate of western values in the name of Allah is a BAD thing. Even if evil things were committed in the past, it was not OK then, and it's not OK now either. Can you at least acknowledge this much? Or should I expect another misdirection and fallacy?
I'm doing it because you were doing it. You've also removed some of your Extremist Muslim supporting statements. Don't want the FBI seeing that kind of stuff. It'll put you on the "no fly" list.
I think I made one edit to correct a typo. You removed the first line of your original posting that indicated that you thought that the protests were anti-secular and you added content that "addressed" one of my points to a post that originally only made reference to Norway.
Now I am editing this just to add that I see you are editing other comments as well, not just to correct typos but significantly altering their content. It seems cheap and petty.
Man, it's times like this which I had down-vote ability already. First a post up-thread asking for someone to give their real identity and now this. You must be a real jewel of a human.
Apart from its virulent anti-Islam sentiment this is a really confused comment: these protests are totally against the Islamist authoritarianism of the government!
Wow. That is one serious load of garbage! Never mind the incredibly baseless and stupid contents that follow, the premise is wrong: the protests themselves in the first place are opposing the present government's attempts to undermine Turkey's longstanding tradition of secularism.
* An impromptu library was built, here are some photos: http://gezikutuphanesi.blogspot.com/ (scroll down) with books donated by people and many publishers.
* Women doing yoga at Gezi Park: http://imgur.com/3kubMll?tags: http://imgur.com/3kubMll?tags (FYI, it is not common to see people, let alone young women, doing yoga in public parks in Istanbul!)
* A number of orchestras giving a classical concert at Gezi: https://www.facebook.com/dutchrevolution/posts/5801004786774...
I am left speechless by these events, never seen anything like this in any protest in Istanbul.
And there has many, many really funny graffiti and signs, here's an example: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151695543624468...